In addition to a large number magazines from 2012 tucked away in the magazine rack, Sandy Hook’s lobby was full of evidence that it was an open, operating elementary school on December 14th, 2012.

Here’s a large winter display in the office windows:

Here is a poster advertising a “small bags, bears, books, and basics” collection drive, running from December 3rd through December 14th. To the right of that is an advertisement for the school’s holiday gift shop, which appears to have been open on December 4th and 5th:

A different poster advertising the “bags, bears, books, and basics” collection drive running from December 3rd through December 14th, also in the lobby:

A nearly full donation box for a “mitten and hat” drive:

Both the “Bags, Bears, Books & Basics Collection” as well as the winter hat and glove collection are mentioned in the December 13, 2012 edition of “The Sandy Hook School Connection”. Thanks for Brian for pointing this out.

Finally, here’s a whiteboard listing the lunch options for the day of Friday, December 14th, 2012:

For more on the whiteboard, please see Sandy Hook Elementary Was Open, Part One: The Lobby.

Moving to the hallway, we find a “snowy snowmen” display:

A “how much snow will we get?” display, also from the hallway:

In one of the perpendicular hallways, there is this calendar, showing December of 2012 (you can see that the 2nd falls on a Sunday, something which last happened in 2007):

Moving into the few rooms included in the crime scene photos, another calendar showing December, 2012:

A box of Christmas decorations:

Not holiday-related, but here are two PCs from classroom #3 that are powered on:

A 2012 calendar showing school days only (a five day week).

Again, not holiday-related, but in addition to a staff member’s jacket, there’s food in the pantry and coffee brewing:

Another view of coffee brewing in addition to a container of milk/creamer:

A calendar for December, 2012 on the right and the date “12-12-12” on the whiteboard on the left:

Christmas decorations on the door to classroom #10:

Here are two pictures showing the same rack of Christmas books. You can spot “Jingle The Christmas Clown” (top-left) and “The Polar Express” (bottom-left). I’m unsure of the rest, but you can make out snow, Christmas trees, winter/Santa hats, etc:

A winter decoration as well as the date of December 14th, 2012, written on the whiteboard of classroom #10. What is presumed to be Adam’s blood can also be seen:

No holiday decorations other than a poinsettia here, but we can see water bottles as well as live fish in the conference room:

From the parking lot, a Ford Mustang decorated with antlers and a Rudolph nose:

Finally, here are some Christmas decorations seen in the interior video walk-through, available as part of the final report. First, a bulletin board decorated with snowmen and snowflakes:

And here is a poinsettia seen on the librarian’s desk:

In order to accept James Fetzer’s totally absurd theory that Sandy Hook Elementary School had been closed since 2008, you’d have to simultaneously believe that the authorities were smart enough to hang numerous Christmas decorations, make sure that all visible calendars were up to date, brew coffee, turn on PCs, feed some fish, and furnish the lobby with recent magazines while being so stupid that they included (and still include) incriminating photos of the alleged staging of the school and its use as storage in the crime scene photos provided by the state, available for download by anyone on the state’s website.

For more in the “Sandy Hook Elementary Was Open” series, please read:
Part One: The Lobby
Part Two: The Obstinate Pen
Part Three: Holiday Decorations And Calendars
Part Four: SMART Technologies
Part Five: Dawn Hochsprung’s Twitter Feed
Part Six: The 2011-2012 Scrapbook
Part Seven: Children’s Authors Visit Sandy Hook
Part Eight: Charitable Causes
Part Nine: The Library
Part Ten: 92 More Photos From Sandy Hook School
Part Eleven: 180 Articles Referencing Sandy Hook School, Written Between 2008-2012
Part Twelve: The Glass Display Cases
Part Thirteen: Google Earth
Part Fourteen: The November 2012 Scholastic Book Fair
Part Fifteen: Sandy Hook School Enrollment For 2008-2017

38 Thoughts on “Sandy Hook Elementary Was Open, Part Three: Holiday Decorations And Calendars

  1. BRIAN on March 7, 2016 at 3:10 pm said:

    good work , but did you know that a couple of your photos with the posters of the BAGS, BEARS, BOOKS and BASICS,, and the other one for the MITTEN DRIVE are mention in the SANDY HOOK CONNECTION dated 12/13/2012 http://sandyhookanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/07/sandy-hook-hoax-claims-debunked.html

  2. Unfortunately you have overlooked the fact that when con artists are about they stage things, so you photographs do not prove anything, and seeing that you go by photographs that are quite easily staged, you avoid the fact that the school had been empty from at least 2007, officially, all internet connections severed, and of course you neglect the school inspector’ report, and photographs of one falling down school.

    It has also been proven that actors played their parts in this production, many interviewed claimed that Adam Lanza attended the school, and had known him for years. The character, Adam Lanza, had only been registered as coming into Sandy Hook in late 2001, aged 19.

    How can witnesses claim to have known Adam Lanza, seen him on the bus, going to Sandy Hook, yet the character Lanza not being in the area until 2011?

    William Tyndale has an excellent work on this subject (Sandy Hook Hoax. Adam Lanza did not exist)

    • Shill Murray on May 3, 2016 at 2:24 pm said:

      Of course. If you haven’t seen it, it doesn’t exist. But if you do happen come across it at some point, it’s fake, right? Is that how this works? How convenient for you and your Internet Mystery Team. And forget providing any proof, just throw the claim out there and let someone else actually research it. I wouldn’t expect any less from a disembodied pig’s dick (prove that you’re not!).

      So they bothered to decorate the school with Christmas decorations, write the correct date on a handful of whiteboards, hide up-to-date magazines in the lobby, install tens of thousands of dollars worth of electronics equipment, maintain the landscaping, start making pizza, continue to produce newsletters and hold PTA meetings, etc, only to somehow forget to update their website? That’s what you’re going with? Get real.

      I think the fact that the “internet activity” claim (which appears to be the only evidence anyone has that the school closed in 2008 or 2007 or whatever it is now) still exists goes a long way towards proving that deniers truly have zero interest in the truth, because it’s something that was easily debunked years ago and it’s not something that can be hand-waved away as a forgery. First of all, let’s get this out of the way: archived versions of a website do not equal “all internet connections”. That just demonstrates an almost unbelievable level of technical ignorance on your part. I can’t even imagine how hard any IT guys reading this are rolling their eyes right now. So you’re off to a really bad start.

      Secondly, the websites for all of Newtown’s public schools – not just Sandy Hook – stopped being archived (which, once again, you’re confusing with with “all internet activity”) at the same time in 2008, and it can be demonstrated that this is due to the webmaster adding the following two lines to their robots.txt file:

      User-agent: *
      Disallow: /

      What do those two lines do? From the FAQ of archive.org:

      “How can I have my site’s pages excluded from the Wayback Machine?

      You can exclude your site from display in the Wayback Machine by placing a robots.txt file on your web server that is set to disallow User-Agent: ia_archiver.”

      The website (or “internet connections”, according to you) wasn’t “severed”, it was simply excluded from future archiving. This is not at all uncommon. And the best thing is, you don’t even have to take my word for it; you can see this for yourself in the June 4th, 2008 snapshot of http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us.

      “It has also been proven that actors played their parts in this production”

      No, it definitely hasn’t.

      “The character, Adam Lanza, had only been registered as coming into Sandy Hook in late 2001, aged 19.”

      No, Adam Lazna would have been nine years-old in 2001. I can only assume you meant to type 2011.

      The idea that Adam did not exist is beyond stupid and the claim that he did not “come into” Sandy Hook until 2011 is patently false. There is plenty of evidence documenting his time at Sandy Hook Elementary School – including his signature on a class of 2003 (which would place him in the fifth grade at the time) t-shirt – which you can view here:

      https://sandyhooklighthouse.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/adam-lanzas-educational-history/

      But let me guess: it’s all fake. You can’t prove it, and you can’t offer any evidence to the contrary, but it’s still all fake, right?

      “How can witnesses claim to have known Adam Lanza, seen him on the bus, going to Sandy Hook, yet the character Lanza not being in the area until 2011?”

      This is like asking “how can 7.4 billion people live on a planet made out of marshmallows?”

  3. the dude on February 10, 2017 at 1:13 am said:

    i found in a photo behind the blue tube for bags bears books basics a tall sign taped to the window behind the display case….down low shows a date of December 3rd 1999

    • Shill Murray on February 10, 2017 at 1:21 am said:

      “Behind the blue tube for bags bears books basics a tall sign”? What does that mean? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Is that in a photo seen here? Elsewhere in the crime scene photos? Are you honestly suggesting that these photos were taken in 1999? Again, I have no clue what you’re talking about, but the thing about time is that a photo from 2012 can include an item from 1999, but a photo from 1999 cannot include an item from 2012.

    • Shill Murray on February 10, 2017 at 1:36 am said:

      Amazingly, in spite of your description (who refers to a plastic bin as a “tube”?), I believe I found exactly what you’re talking about. I found it on page twenty-eight of Tranquillo’s back-up scene photos:

      That absolutely does not say December 3rd, 1999. It says December 3rd – 14th, which are the exact dates of the “Bags, Bears, Books, & Basics” donation drive. This is confirmed in multiple photos, including the following:

      In addition, that very same crime scene photo contains a number of magazines from late December, as covered here. So you’re really ass out on this one.

  4. Operation Gladio on August 1, 2017 at 8:56 pm said:

    Let’s assume fine the stupid school was open, all 400 plus students and 60 plus faculty were there. I see 15 to 20 students being evacuated ( although this picture is suspect as well) where are the rest of them? Of the 100 plus bullets fired not one can be traced to Adam Lanza’s gun. Isn’t that odd? See police report.
    So yes you can say the asbestos riddled school was open and it was not ADA compliant but even so the Sandy Hook event was very odd to say the least. What if the school closed for that one day for the drill? That’s possible. Then they can order pizza, water, porta potties and the everyone must check in sign for the drill as they did on that fateful day. See the Sandy Hook FEMA drill manual for the specifics. If everything were real then the following should have happened.
    1. The triage tarps should have been used.
    2. The road leading to the school would have been open and not blocked by cars.
    3. The kids and adults should have been promptly removed from the building and every attempt should have been made to save their lives. Instead they just laid there until it was nighttime. (Very odd)
    4. The ambulances and helicopters should have taken the victims at least to the hospital. Who pronounced everyone dead?
    5. Video footage would have been released. It is very hard to believe that there was no CCTV cameras on campus.
    6. There should have been at least 12 busses and a mass of children in an evacuation zone with teachers leaving that school. The police video show no children leaving. So where,did the children go? Did they just all run in different directions?

    Remember that MSM colludes routinely with the”establishment” so it makes it easier to hoax when the Democrats are in power. See Wikileaks emails.

    Maybe something did happen there but we just can’t tell what due to the secrecy. The government is the perfect perpetrator. They can conceal, and collude and it seldom prosecutes itself. See MLK, JFK and RFK assasinations. Their still hiding info on JFK.

    So it’s not only the school being open question. People most likely died but probably not the way that the trusty government says. The government is one of the most dishonest groups/people on the planet, right behind the UN and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Look up operation Gladio in Italy especially. The US government has sponsored terrorism for years and I doubt they have gone to TA (terrorism anonymous). They should but alas problem reaction solution still works so it’s just too easy to kill people and get their agenda passed. The US Government kills people routinely (see drone program, operation gladio (sponsoring of) planned parenthood funding of, the Branch Davidians, WTC 93 (real bomb was not switched out for fake one) and others … so the less of it the better.

    • Shill Murray on August 5, 2017 at 10:14 pm said:

      Let’s assume fine the stupid school was open

      You expect people to believe that Barack Obama somehow organized and paid off hundreds, if not thousands of people – including the usually conservative members of the local and state police, the FBI, etc. – to either murder or at least pretend to murder 20 six year-old children at a small elementary school in Connecticut in order to pass some limp-dicked state gun legislation, but it’s the school that’s stupid. Right.

      all 400 plus students and 60 plus faculty were there. I see 15 to 20 students being evacuated ( although this picture is suspect as well) where are the rest of them?

      This – like many of your other questions – has already been answered, and it was answered years ago. Hell, it’s been answered here, probably more than once, but it’s clear that you didn’t bother to read the rest of the site before commenting.

      The remaining students were either already evacuated or waiting to be evacuated. As I’m sure you know, the only person taking photos of the evacuations that morning was Shannon Hicks (schools don’t have official photographers just sitting around, waiting to snap photos of mass evacuations in order appease Internet conspiracy goofs). She has said in the past that she took many more photos of the evacuations, but was asked not to release them due to privacy concerns. These are, after all, small children, many of which are already being harassed by the denier death cult. By the way, there are two Shannon Hicks evacuation photos that have been released, not one singular “picture”. And if you want to elaborate on why it is “suspect”, feel free. Chances are that has also been debunked here, as well.

      The evacuations captured by the police dashcams – which capture a large number of children leaving the school – are heavily redacted due to state and federal law, which law enforcement is obviously bound to. There’s local statues CGS § 1-210(b)(3)(B) as well as CT Const. Art. 1 Sec 8b and US Const. Amend. 14.

      I’m not sure who else you expect to be snapping photos of the evacuations. The infamous Channel 12 helicopter footage was taken later in the day, after all of the students had been evacuated. Maybe you think the parents who arrived early and were waiting to find out whether or not their children were still alive would have snapped a few, for posterity’s sake?

      Of the 100 plus bullets fired not one can be traced to Adam Lanza’s gun. Isn’t that odd? See police report.

      I’ll never understand you folks. So now you believe the final report? Or just the little bits and pieces here and there that you believe you can twist and misrepresent in order to support your narrative? Do you honestly believe that Connecticut State Police would include something so confusing if not straight-up incriminating in their own report? It’s their report, and if their only job is to make the public believe that Adam Lanza and Adam Lanza alone did this, then they can doctor it however they see fit and tell whatever story they want to tell. Why muddy the waters? Do you people ever stop and think about this stuff? It couldn’t make any less sense.

      So what does the final report actually say? From page forty-one:

      “No positive identification could be made to any of the bullet evidence submissions noted …in 5.56 mm caliber. The physical condition of the bullet jacket surfaces were severely damaged and corroded. They all lacked individual striated marks of sufficient agreement for the identification process. The test fires also exhibited a lack of individual striated marks on the bullet surface for comparison purposes. This condition can be caused by fouling in the barrel of the rifle and the ammunition itself. The Bushmaster rifle cannot be eliminated as having fired the 5.56 caliber bullet evidence examined,” quoting from the 6/19/13 Forensic Science Laboratory report.

      Yes, the bullet jacket surfaces were too damaged to make a positive identification. But all of the shell casings were tested and did match, as seen on page six:

      The following weapons were recovered in the course of this investigation: (1) a Bushmaster Model XM15-E2S semi-automatic rifle, found in the same classroom as the shooter’s body. All of the 5.56 mm shell casings from the school that were tested were found to have been fired from this rifle. (2) a Glock 20, 10 mm semi-automatic pistol found near the shooter’s body and determined to have been the source of the self-inflicted gunshot wound by which he took his own life. (3) a Sig Sauer P226, 9 mm semi-automatic pistol found on the shooter’s person. There is no evidence this weapon had been fired. (4) a Izhmash Saiga-12, 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun found in the shooter’s car in the parking lot outside the school, and which was secured in the vehicle’s trunk by police responding to the scene. There is no evidence this weapon had been fired. (5) a Savage Mark II rifle found at 36 Yogananda Street on the floor of the master bedroom near the bed where the body of the shooter’s mother was found. This rifle also was found to have fired the four bullets recovered during the autopsy of the shooter’s mother.

      So yes you can say the asbestos riddled school

      As covered here a number of times, they school was never “asbestos riddled”. At least no more so than any other building built in the 50s. Hell, if Sandy Hook was “asbestos riddled” (and it wasn’t), then so was my house until I replaced the siding a few years ago. There’s absolutely no evidence to support the idea that the school had an asbestos problem. In fact, all of the available documention (newspaper articles, school reports) says the opposite; that the asbestos was never a cause for concern at anyone at SHES.

      What if the school closed for that one day for the drill?

      It wasn’t, though. And there is zero evidence that supports your nonsensical theory. Again, this is a logistical nightmare as you would still have to convince hundreds and hundreds of children, parents, etc, to go along with your plan. Otherwise, you’d have at least one parent saying, “well, wait… how could someone kill twenty-six people inside of the school when it was closed for the day due to some mystery drill?” This theory is no less goofy than the one that requires the school to have been closed to years.

      Then they can order pizza, water, porta potties and the everyone must check in sign for the drill as they did on that fateful day.

      Oh no, not water! What do you believe is so nefarious about delivering pizza and water to a site where a large number of people are stuck waiting (and many more working) for an extended period of time? This bit – which I’ve seen from Halbig over and over and over again, though it doesn’t surprise me that he’s obsessed with food – makes absolutely zero sense to me. Do you expect these people not to drink water while they wait for news on their children? Were police not supposed to eat for the days that they spent at the site? What exactly is the point of this claim?

      As for the porta potties, if this were a planned event, why didn’t they show up until late in the afternoon on the 14th? They’re not seen in the early aerial photos and we can actually see them being delivered at around 1:30PM in the following police dashcam still:

      The “Everyone Must Check In” sign showed up even later, making its first appearance the next day, on the 15th. If anything, this does a tremendous disservice to the idea that this was all planned. What good is an “Everyone Must Check In” sign if it’s delivered a full day after this alleged drill?

      See the Sandy Hook FEMA drill manual for the specifics.

      You know that thing is an obvious fake, right? I wrote a whole entry about it. Poor guy; you’ve been bamboozled.

      If everything were real then the following should have happened.
      1. The triage tarps should have been used.

      They were. There are a number of pictures of this.

      2. The road leading to the school would have been open and not blocked by cars.

      It wasn’t. You can see that there is a clear path to the school in this still, taken from the Channel 12 helicopter video:

      3. The kids and adults should have been promptly removed from the building and every attempt should have been made to save their lives. Instead they just laid there until it was nighttime. (Very odd)

      What are you even talking about? Multiple victims were rushed to the hospital, including two children who ultimately died there. Deborah Pisani can be seen being treated on the red triage tarp. The rest of the children were black tagged in the school after first responders made multiple attempts to resuscitate them.

      4. The ambulances and helicopters should have taken the victims at least to the hospital. Who pronounced everyone dead?

      There were no helicopters as they were not necessary. Again, multiple victims were taken to local hospitals. The rest were pronounced dead by first responders, who are legally able to declare people dead.

      5. Video footage would have been released. It is very hard to believe that there was no CCTV cameras on campus.

      Hard for you to believe maybe, because you don’t want to believe it. But there weren’t video cameras in Sandy Hook. Even today, not every school in the country has CCTV, especially small elementary schools.

      6. There should have been at least 12 busses and a mass of children in an evacuation zone with teachers leaving that school. The police video show no children leaving. So where,did the children go? Did they just all run in different directions?

      What is this based on? Most of the children were evacuated to the firehouse, where they were picked up by their parents. Did you not read the final report? This is all well-documented.

      Maybe something did happen there but we just can’t tell what due to the secrecy.

      There has to be more information publicly available on Sandy Hook than nearly any other shooting in American history. If that’s not good enough for you, then I don’t know what to tell you. The survivors and the parents have a right to privacy, and no sane person would consider violating that just to appease a bunch of nitwits who will always demand more and more evidence. First it was the crime scene photos. They were released as part of the final report, and then it was the death certificates. “Show us the death certificates!” Once they were released, it was “show us the autopsy photos!” It just never ends. The goalposts can always be pushed back an inch or two further.

      So it’s not only the school being open question. People most likely died but probably not the way that the trusty government says.

      Anything to be a contrarian, right? Because it’s so hard to believe that a mentally-ill man obsessed with school shootings and with easy, unchecked access to assault rifles may actually shoot up a school.

  5. NotToday333 on August 5, 2017 at 7:02 pm said:

    Sorry for my question not having to do with this page in particular, however I don’t know any other way to contact you.
    You appear to be to most logical and informed SH debunker out there. No joke. I usually find people that resort to name calling and have no use for sources.
    Anyways, I would really like to understand the point of view of someone that believes this really happened, the way the official story is told. See, the few times I have found a debunker that does more than name calling, it just appears that they believe that if they can debunk certain claims, than the official story must be true. But that’s just not logical.
    As I can list numerous reasons why I question the official narrative, I would like someone to do the same… but why they believe the official narrative. I’m hoping that you would be able to do that. I’m a believer in knowing all sides and understanding perspectives different from my own. The only way I can truly understand and know this case is if I look into every lead and learn every point of view. Otherwise, my view is ignorant and biased.

  6. Steve on August 7, 2017 at 2:49 am said:

    I’m not going to presume to speak for Shill Murray, but I do have a few things to say about this myself.
    First of all, there really is only one valid point of view, what really happened. Adam Lanza killed his mother, 26 other people, and himself. We will probably never know why. Whether you want to accept that or not, that’s what happened and it’s not up for debate anymore than the question of does 2+2 really equal 4.
    It’s not a matter of believing “the official story” or not. That a mentally ill person with easy access to firearms committed mass murder is a heck of a lot more plausible than any alternative explanation, especially one depending on the knowledge, cooperation and life-long silence of 10s of thousands of people. The former has happened many times before Dec. 14, 2012, has happened many times since and is certain to happen again in the future. The latter scenario would be rejected as too far-fetched for a Syfi network movie.
    You ask about the name calling. Have you ever heard the expression “If don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous?”
    I always see the same questions about the same things, the EMTs, the helicopters, the FBI report, the “crisis actors,” etc. All of them have been answered here or in dozens of other places several times. If you choose not to accept the answers, that’s your problem. It’s not my problem. It’s not Shill Murray’s problem and it’s certainly not Lenny Pozner’s, Robbie Parker’s, Gene Rosen’s, the Wheeler family’s, the Soto family’s or anyone else who lost a relative in that shooting’s problem. Which brings me to my last point. They are not fair game. I don’t care if you think Robbie Parker looked like he was taking his daughter’s death just a little too well. I don’t care if you think Noah Pozner never existed or that Mr. Wheeler doubled as an FBI agent, mocking their grief and calling them liars or actors or whatever is beyond the realm of basic human decency. Whatever vile, below-the-belt attacks are launched against Barack Obama or Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or whatever politician you might have a problem with might be despicable, but they’re public figures and right or wrong it does go with the territory. These people in Newtown are private citizens. They did not ask for this. Nobody told them before they chose to speak publicly that anything they say can and will be used against them by a bunch of wack jobs on social media. So how about showing them a little basic decency? If you can’t do that, you deserve to be called whatever you’re being called.

    • NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 3:01 pm said:

      Augh! So annoying. Both sides of this argument are so brainwashed it’s not even funny. Yeah, I question the official narrative but that doesn’t mean I bow down to the alter of disinfo King Halbig. but I’m not retarded. I know the school was open, Adam and Ryan are 2 separate people, they weren’t going around in circles at the firehouse, they weren’t crisis actors, it really is proper procedure in an open shooting scenario for emergency vehicles and personnel to keep their distance, at the time Cario stated he had about 23? years of EMT experience, making him well qualified to check vitals. He never claimed to have pronounced anyone dead, actual medical personnel did. And if I have to hear one more “they want our guns” rant I swear I might fucking lose it. And yes, Creepy Gene is creepy, but not the focus of my attention. He doesn’t matter to me.

      Questioning the official narrative doesn’t mean I’m a sick weirdo with no respect for the dead and grieving. Actually, just the opposite. I’m a firm believer that since the dead no longer have voices, it is our job (as the living) to speak for them. If my research ends up telling me that they really did die the way we have been told than I want my research to be known. Cause if it’s all true, those families really do need to grieve in peace. However, if my research ends up telling me that something else happened, then I want that to be known as well. After all, we are talking about cute, innocent, defenseless children right? Let’s say it was a hoax. There are children growing up believing they really survived that. Some may grow up to do good things, but some of them will be damaged goods. Meaning, they stole the future of those children.

      But speaking of family, there are 3 reports stating the Soto’s were told early on that Vicki never hid any kids etc, and yet, years later her dad is still propagating that lie. It’s really hard to take them seriously when I know they are outright lying.

      Now to my point. I was a criminal justice major and minored in forensic science. Although life took a very different turn and I never ended up in the field, I would like to think that I still know my shit.
      I have a hard time believing that SO MANY narratives could come from only ONE truth.

      1. At least by noon they knew that there were deceased in room 10 and 8. They knew Adam’s birth date and that it wasn’t a bulletproof vest. However, there are several warrants that say that there were deceased in the first 3 rooms, he was a teenager and wearing a bulletproof vest. How could such a narrative have existed among law enforcement if all 3 were not true? Especially suggesting that there were deceased in room 12, if nothing happened in there and her whole class was all accounted for? Even weirder is the fact that they requested photos etc for the first 3 classrooms in order to help identify victims. huh? Either something happened in there that we don’t know about that caused them to think this way, or law enforcement knowingly lied on those warrants, making all evidence seized with those warrants null and void. The exclusionary rule does not apply because, if the official narrative is truth, they definitely did not type that up with good faith that it was true, but knew it to be a lie.

      2. Roig’s cell phone. She believes it’s missing. Tells the police the killer may have taken it. At the time they were concerned there may have been a second suspect so they take it seriously and begin immediately to look for it. They get 2 pings, near Apex Glass which is down the road. They gather a team, suit up and go looking for it. But find nothing. Try a third ping but got nothing. So they walk away from it??? But then, the phone magically reappears in her classroom. Someone obviously thought it was weird and considered it as evidence because it became exhibit #86. However (unless I have overlooked it) it doesn’t appear they ever followed through with that investigation. Who took it? Who brought it back? Why would her phone even matter? Unless…

      3. You take into account that her ex boyfriend (and ex SHES janitor) Vest and his friend (both in FL at the time) call up to CT police, stating that Vest was on the phone with Roig at the time the shooting began. She stated to him on the phone that the sub second door down (from her) was looking for a key. Vest didn’t give much info over the phone because he wasn’t entirely positive he was on the phone with law enforcement and told them he was planning a trip to CT and wanted to do a face to face when he got there. When he got there he contacted police, who then denied him a face to face, stating they already had her narrative and didn’t need to hear his… uh, wtf? So not ok for LE to do that. Especially because she’s a liar.

      4. In her book, she states that there were expended shells that had rolled under her door from the adjoining door with room 10… uh no! Not one single ballistic evidence was found in her room. If she really was the last class to have been evacuated from there, the excuse that LE must’ve kicked it around does not apply.

      5. I also find it idiotic to believe that so many seasoned professionals could get something so basic as Adam’s death and body location wrong. Lt. Vance states in a video interview that he saw Adam in the hallway outside of classrooms. Several police reports state that Adam was in room 8. The ATF state that he encountered 2 police officers in the school, retreated to room 10 and killed himself. Hoboken said that he was killed by arriving officers. In the scene processing report, it states that he was standing, facing east, when he was shot with a gun wound to the right, back lower portion of his skull with an upward trajectory. All physical evidence that we can see, depicts this narrative. The bullet above rm 8, the trajectory analysis, the hole in the front of his hat, the hair at the tip of the gun…. But then why would Carver state intraoroal? Something isn’t right.

      6. Could you explain why Hammond’s blood doesn’t match the narrative? So, we see the spot where she must’ve dropped after being hit. Cool… but where the hell is her contact-transfer pattern from crawling? Actually, her blood patterns make no sense. On the furthest right side of the inside of the door, there is a smudge that could be considered contact-transfer. But why the hell is the rest of it drip? And, if she was wounded all on her left side, holding the door with her right, feet towards the main office, then why does it look like her ass was bleeding? There is no blood anywhere near where her thigh, leg or foot would be. There is no gap between the door, where her body should have been and where her left hand/arm would have been. And why are there so many different narratives about her wounds? Speaking of which, don’t you find it odd, that the Fire Chief and the EMT that brought her to Danbury state that she was injured all on her right side!!??!!?? Cario stated he cut her pants while treating her in room 9, you’d think that something so noticeable wouldn’t escape a trained and seasoned EMT like John Reed. Or the Fire Chief who is also OEM etc Halstead should definitely know his shit.

      I have a very loooooooong list of discrepancies that no one has ever attempted to explain. That I can’t explain.. unless I accept the notion that what we have been told is not 100% truth.

      And the thought that there couldn’t be so many dirty cops and officials once existed… until I learned that their nickname was Corrupticut, and for a damn good reason. Actually, the first murder without a body case for the state of CT, that basically launched Carver’s career, was done by a part time Newtown Police Officer…. just saying.

      Anyways, if you could explain those discrepancies I would greatly appreciate it. Cause to me, they shouldn’t exist. Not if there is and always has been, ONE TRUTH.

      • NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 3:29 pm said:

        Which brings me to my actual inquiry.
        I’ve looked all over for a believer (who has researched it, even a tiny bit) to tell me why they believe. But the only response I keep getting is basically, “If I can debunk Halbig, then it must be true”.
        That can’t be it, can it? There has to be at least one researcher that believes it for other reasons right? It can’t all be about that disinfo agent, can it? Cause debunking an idiot doesn’t mean the official story is true.

        Debunking the idea that 9/11 was done with that laser technology that was trying to be created in The Strategic Defense Initiative (dubbed Star Wars), doesn’t mean it wasn’t an inside job. Debunking the theory that you can see a picture of Bush Sr. in Dallas the day JFK was shot doesn’t mean it was always just Oswald. Debunking Halbig only means you debunked an idiot.

        So, idiot (Halbig) aside, why do you believe it happened? What are the reasons why I should believe it happened?

  7. Steve on August 7, 2017 at 4:42 pm said:

    Nice Gish Gallop.

    Again, there is no “both sides.” Adam Lanza killed 26 people and himself. Any other scenario is so wildly improbable, there’s no way it could have happened.

    And unanswered questions don’t equal “hoax”

    Of your long list of questions, how many have to be explained to your satisfaction for you to accept that Adam Lanza was the killer?

    No event is ever 100 percent explainable. Life is messy that way.

    If you think something other than what was described in “the official story” happened, tell us what you think happened.
    The burden of proof is on you.
    What you have isn’t evidence. It’s anomalies. Look at any incident in great enough detail, you’ll see things that don’t add up. That’s just the way life is.
    Tell us how they hired the actors. Tell us how they bought off or threatened everyone involved.
    Until you can do those things, you have nothing.

    • NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 5:26 pm said:

      But why do you believe it happened? Why should I believe the official story? It’s a really simple question that no one can answer apparently.

      Life is messy, but that cannot excuse multiple seasoned officers (and an M.E of 30+ yrs) all getting something as simple as the location and death of the suspect wrong. That does not explain the disappearing, reappearing phone that was never investigated. Doesn’t explain why the physical evidence does not match the narrative (blood does not lie). But let’s pretend this idea is true. Then at the very least you are stating that the investigation was done incompetently and should be re-opened. Some things might be left unanswered.. like why he did it. Who was driving to the theater in those early hours and why were they doing it? But that does not excuse all of the discrepancies and bad investigating…

      Just answer me this… what occurred there, or what did they see there, that could have caused law enforcement to have stated on several warrants:

      “numerous school children and school personnel were located deceased from apparent gunshot wounds in the first three classrooms located off the main hallway adjacent to the school’s front entrance”……. “Investigators also located a teenaged white malde dressed in military style clothing, wearing a bullet proof vest lying deceased on the floor in the middle classroom”

      Either there was something there that they covered up (because nothing happened in Roig’s room right?), or these officers are knowingly lying on these warrants. Either way, this is not right and should be examined.

      And for the last freakin time, I KNOW THEY WEREN’T ACTORS!!!!!!!!!!!! But dirty cops, corrupt politicians, sociopathic people in a corrupted state.
      But isn’t it interesting, that since this has happened, their master plan at FFH has been in full swing? Monroe Police Dept opened up a newly renovated state of the art building in 2013? There seems to be an endless list of foundations and other non profits all making tons of money, plus donations from GE, government grants.. In 2013 The Children’s Adventure Center receives a $100,000 grant for “security upgrades”, in 2014 the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps. moves into their new $4.5 million facility..

      • Shill Murray on August 7, 2017 at 6:39 pm said:

        Alright, there’s a lot to review here as we’re already a few comments deep into this thread and I’m just starting to play catch up. I don’t reply to most of these (approved and unapproved) comments all that quickly because a) I want to make sure I’m always armed with facts and b) I find it exhausting to keep repeating the same points over and over again, especially when they’ve already been discussed elsewhere on the site. Not that this is always the case with your comments specifically, but it’s the reason I’m usually lagging behind in any discussion.

        But why do you believe it happened?

        Because I still have no reason not to. The fact of the matter is that the best available evidence supports “the official story”, which means that the burden of proof is on those that want to convince me that it didn’t happen. To that end, they’ve failed spectacularly. And simply reminding me that the government or the mainstream media, etc can be corrupt, like it’s some sort of great revelation, isn’t gonna cut it. That’s like saying unicorns are real because you saw a horse once. Yes, the media has gotten it wrong on a number of occasions, and they’ve admitted that. Entire books have been written about it. And media outlets on both sides of the ideological fence have been guilty of manipulating the narrative. No one really comes out smelling like a rose there. But if you believe that the “official story” can’t possibly be right simply because the mainstream media or government say that it happened one way (which makes you less of a skeptic and more of a contrarian, in my personal opinion), then how can anyone in their right mind trust the alternative when it is pushed by known liars and blatant fabricators such as Wolfgang Halbig, James Fetzer, etc? If a story’s veracity rests squarely on the shoulders of those telling it, then this one isn’t even close.

        As for why the “official story” makes more sense than any of the convoluted, sometimes competing conspiracy theories: possibility vs. probability. The idea that an untreated mentally-ill young man obsessed with school shootings and unfettered access to assault rifles could shoot up a school is (sadly) not at all improbable. It’s not the first time it happened and it certainly won’t be the last (unless, of course, you believe they’re all phony). On the other hand, a sprawling conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people, that reaches the highest levels of government, organized in an effort to either enact some ineffectual local gun legislation or raise a bunch of money (depending on who you ask), is. At least significantly moreso. I’m genuinely curious as to why you so steadfastly believe the opposite.

        Either there was something there that they covered up (because nothing happened in Roig’s room right?)

        First of all, it would be beneficial to everyone involved if you provided sources for these quotes as context is important. Secondly, yes, you’re correct in that no one was killed in Roig’s room. However, Hammond was injured inside of room 9 – the conference room – and the bodies of Hochsprung and Sherlach were located just outside. So while I don’t know who phrased it that way, it’s not a wholly inaccurate statement if you take it to include room 9 (rather than 12).

        Investigators also located a teenaged white malde dressed in military style clothing, wearing a bullet proof vest lying deceased on the floor in the middle classroom

        Again, context is important. Who said this? And do you truly, honestly think it’s outrageous for someone to mistake Adam’s black cargo pants, black bucket hat and oxfords as “military style” clothing? Or for someone to mistake his green fisherman’s vest as bullet proof on first glance?

        Look, if you need or want me to go back and attempt to answer all of your questions and account for all of the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and anomalies, I really have no idea how long that will take me. There’s a lot there, and the truth is that I don’t even know if I’ll ever be able to answer everything to your personal satisfaction, especially because it seems to me that you just really, really want to believe that something fishy happened here. All I ask is that you take all of the available evidence for “both sides” (as you say), stack it up in two nice, neat little piles, and compare the two. If you honestly believe that the evidence that this was some sort of hoax or whatever – much of which has been debunked and discredited – is more convincing, then I just don’t know what to tell you. That’s the truth.

        • NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 10:57 pm said:

          I would really like to drop Halbig out of this conversation. I do not read any of his crap or subscribe to any of his disinfo campaigns. I have done my own personal research into this event. So he is not relevant whatsoever. His crap has been debunked, but to date not one person have ever given me any kind of explanation for any of my questions. Guess it’s because they cannot be debunked. They are simply quotes from official documents. There is nothing to disprove or prove. But rather…. explain.

          I get that not everything is perfect. Eye witnesses sometimes get things wrong, which is why I’m not even covering the fact that there were 2 different descriptions of the suspect (the mask and hat with glasses). Or the fact that the gunshots sounded like pots and pans or the janitor setting up the table. I’m not even bringing up the “transposing” of Ryan and Adam’s name. Or the several variations and places of Natalie’s wounds.
          Or the fact that we have 2 narratives as to how they got Roig and her class out of the closet from Narnia. Just a badge, or a badge and a key?
          Badge then she came out on her own
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00002060 p.5-6
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00258158 p 5
          Badge and key
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00005509
          CFS 1200705354 Sec 16 p.57
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00024911 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00122964

          Or this report that states that a child went to Danbury Hospital, not an adult
          CFS1200704559 Book 2 00250882 p. 24

          The report that states that both children were transported to the hospital via police vehicle not separate ambulances
          CFS1200704559 Book 2 00256555 p. 3 – 4

          Or how about the fact that they all seemed to be… new, and/or covering for someone. Rousseau was recently hired as a full time sub, D’Avino had only been there for a few weeks, there was someone out sick from the office, Thorne was covering for the other janitor, there was a sub in room 1, Murphy was set to retire soon, Hochsprung was hired in 2010, Soto.. sometime around then (I can’t remember exact year).

          This report states there were deceased found on the right side of Adam
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00172105 p. 3
          Here’s a diagram proving that to be wrong
          CFS 1200704597 00235016 p.7

          And this report from the ATF, that states that both of the wounded children that were carried out were found in room 8
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00151276 p.3

          What I am listing are things that should not exist in this investigation. How does Vance not know the difference between a classroom and a hallway? How does Carver not know the difference between the back of the head or through the mouth?
          Back of the head
          CFS 1200704597 00118939 p.32, 34
          Intraoral
          CFS 1200704597 00101146
          there are tons of photos of the hat, gun, bullet and trajectory analysis in Walkley scene photos, Tranquillo back up 1 and 2. If you’d like me to go through them and list them for you I will.

          Why would the ATF believe that 2 encountered 2 police officers in the school? The ATF was there that day. It’s not like they were getting their info from a conspiracy blogger and jotting it down in their reports..CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00151276 p.3

          Why would a prosecutor tell Hoboken Police that Peter was dead in the Hoboken Apartment? Was he getting his info from the same source as the ATF?
          CFS 1200704559 00188555 p.23, 24

          Why the EMT gear was outside room 5, the only door in the NE hallway that was locked on both sides and needed to be breached, and based on photos, the only classroom door that was boarded up. Rm 5 and 12 were also the only doors that had paper on the window.
          CFS 1200704597 00118939 p.5, 21
          CFS 1200704597 00118939 p. 15
          CFS 1200704597 00118939 p. 15
          Tranquillo back up scene photos 1 #70, 75, 94
          Tranquillo back up scene photos 2 #954

          Or the preschool that was there but no one talks about.
          CFS 1200704559 Book 2 00014533 p. 54, 62, 63, 64
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00008244
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00022276

          The only media source I have brought up was Lt. Vance’s interview. One thing I cited from Roig’s book and everything else are in their own reports.
          This is the interview with Vance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6GTy6nVyo
          Reporter: “And where was the gunman?”
          Lt. Vance: “In the hallway.”
          Reporter: “Outside a classroom?”
          Lt. Vance: “Correct.”

          Each of the following warrants (listed as #5 on each) states “numerous school children and school personnel were located deceased from apparent gunshot wounds in the first three classrooms located off the main hallway adjacent to the school’s front entrance”……. “Investigators also located a teenaged white malde dressed in military style clothing, wearing a bullet proof vest lying deceased on the floor in the middle classroom”
          #1 and #2 describe the officers requesting the warrants.
          CFS 1200705354 Sec. 2 Pg. 4,16
          CFS 1200704597 00063167 p.4
          CFS 1200704559 Book 1 00263454 p.54
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194593 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194599 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194603 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00259526 p.3
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00259526 p.3

          And speaking of age, the following documents all state that Adam’s birth date was 1982, not 1992.
          CFS 1200704597 00045841 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00045958 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00045968 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00045980 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00046686 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00046693 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063156 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063173 p.1, 3
          CFS 1200704597 00063174 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063176 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063177 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063179 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00063183 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00101146 p.1
          CFS 1200704597 00118665 p.2
          CFS 1200704597 00118672
          CFS 1200704597 00118706
          CFS 1200704597 00118707 p.2
          CFS 1200704597 00118710
          CFS 1200704559 Book 2 00194623 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 2 00195358 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00155237 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00116176 p.2

          In these reports they state that Adam was found in Room 8.

          CFS 1200705354 Sec 16 p.4 “Numerous dead children and teachers were seen in classroom 10 and 8. It appeared that many of the children and teachers had been shot in the head and body. [long redaction] These classrooms were searched by team members without touching or disturbing any of the victims. In classroom 8, the body of the gunman was found dead of an apparent gunshot wound to the head, lying in somewhat of a fetal position.”

          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00122995 p.5 “In classroom 8 the body of the gunman was found dead of an apparent gunshot wound to the head, lying somewhat of a fetal position.”

          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00019275 (interview done on December 20) p.2 “Meehan stated that they then went to the next room over which he identified as room 9 (known to be room 8) and saw a deceased adult with a Sig Sauer handgun and a glock handgun holstered.” (Although his wordings suggest he wasn’t coming from the lobby area. He stated “entered the FIRST classroom, room 10” then 8, and then went to Hochsprung and Sherlach. He later states going back to room 10 and tagged each victim except for 3 victims in the bathroom. Put tags on doorknob to the bathroom – then tagged victims in room 9 – known as room 8)

          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00029067 p.2 “I entered a classroom and observed a large number of children who all appeared to be deceased from gun shots lying against the south side of the classroom. There was also a male individual lying deceased with an apparent gunshot wound to the head and a semiautomatic handgun near him. He was located near the doorway of the classroom. A Trooper stated that the deceased male was the shooter and that the room had been cleared with no survivors.

          The following reports discuss retrieving photos from her room in an effort to identify victims. There are more discussing the return of those photos but I have not written them down in my notes. If you’d like I can try to find them.
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00156788
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00029067 p. 4-5

          In this report he states “I then entered the two classrooms that were closest to the front door of the school. Sgt. Kullgren, CSP Sgt. O’Donnell (not sure about the name) and other state troopers were in these classrooms. In these classrooms, there were approximately 20 dead 6 or 7 year old children and adults. [long – redacted]. There was also a lot of blood everywhere”.
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00029085 p. 5-6

          These reports are about Vest, the ex boyfriend.
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00098615
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00098624
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00006266

          This is a google preview of Roig’s book. You cannot read it all but you can read page 94 where she states that there were expended shells in her classroom. https://books.google.com/books?id=6dz4DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=what+happened+to+roig%27s+cell+phone&source=bl&ots=Y_fvNc3sdT&sig=vqoYBGq0lhtf70P_uY-H0D72w-s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrj4DYsp_UAhULfiYKHcizB2sQ6AEISjAH#v=onepage&q=what%20happened%20to%20roig's%20cell%20phone&f=false
          Just for quick reference, here are 2 documents with photos that clearly show there was no ballistic evidence in room 12.
          CFS 1200704597 00018466 P.2
          CFS 1200704597 00235016 p.7

          These reports are about Roig’s phone being missing
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00003342
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00007591 pg.3
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00005509
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00011399 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00017426 p.3
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00019903 p.3
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00030931 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00093048 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00251204 p.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 2 00257980

          And her phone just magically reappears with no explanation, with an evidence marker.
          CFS 1200704597 00187025
          p.92-93 Photo #959 “Distant view, facing south from the eastern area of the room, depicting the location of Exhibit #86, one (1) black colored Blackberry cellular phone with Sprint logo, located on the bookshelf just west of the entrance in the room marked #12 Grade 1 Miss Roig.”
          p.93 Photo #660 “Close-up view, depicting Exhibit #86, one (1) blacked colored Blackberry cellular phone with Sprint logo, located on the bookshelf just west of the entrance in the room marked #12 Grade 1 Miss Roig.”

          Interestingly, this report states there were children in room 9. This is definitely no mistake in numbers, because his very description shows that he really mean rm 9 / conference room.

          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00258158 p.3 “proceeded slowly down the Northeast hallway checking rooms systematically beginning with the first door on the interior side of the hallway (11A). We agreed before opening the door that I would clear the right side of the room and he would clear the left side. We entered the room and found no occupants. We then crossed the hallway and checked the first classroom (rm 12) finding no occupants. We then crossed back to the interior side of the hallway and entered a room (rm 9) and observed some adults and some children crouched down at various locations in the room. I observed an adult female laying down with obvious injuries to what I believe but do not specifically recall to have been her leg and hand (Hammond). She was conscious and responsive”

          I’m not seeing contact-transfer patterns consistent with Hammond’s story. There’s actually drip patterns on the door instead (except for one spot on the right side). There’s no void pattern consistent with where her body would have been on the carpet. Plus, if she was holding the door with her right hand, feet facing the main office, there shouldn’t be blood where her ass would be. There’s no blood on the right side, where her feet would have been. You can see what I mean in Tranquillo back up scene photos 1 # 54, 57, 61, 62, 106
          These are reports discussing how how she was holding the door and what side her wounds were
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00011964
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00012200
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00038575 –
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00038650
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00039326
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00040126
          CFS 1200704559 Book 5 00040231

          This is Cario’s report, he mentions treating her
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00026724 p.5

          Here’s Halstead and Lerman both stating she was wounded on her right side
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00256435 pg.2
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00256482

          I’ve always assumed the reason why we never saw Adam’s vest was because it was too soiled (even though many of the victim’s clothes were laundered within days and returned to families within a few months).. This assumption was made by Carver’s press release when he states the bullets were supposited within the tissue. This means no exit wounds. Which is totally unbelievable, given that they were all shot 3-11 times with an AR 15 at close range… but let’s pretend the statistics is on their side. No exit wound means more blow back. Meaning, Adam would have been struck by a lot of blood. However, there is no evidence of this. If you look carefully, you can see the right side of the counter/sink area on the left in Walkley scene photos #567. Within the scene processing report they estimated that Adam was in that area while shooting. However, it also states that the blood was concentrated within the bathroom and a small amount around cupboard doors. Meaning, the blood was centralized, leaving me to assume there were exit wounds. CFS 1200704597 00118939 p.61
          That’s a big deal. They were shot with a high velocity bullet. The exit wound is pretty gruesome. Leaves a lot of blood. Cario supposedly brought out 11 bodies from the bathroom and laid them out near the west wall. There should be toooonnns of contact-transfer patterns. Along with pooling patterns. There is zilch. Nowhere near the doorway, not around the carpet area we’d be expecting him to be walking on while doing this.. nothing. There’s no pooling pattern where Adam was either. Nothing! (we see enough of the carpet in the trajectory analysis photos to be able to see something). No boot prints in the hallway, no spatter where Hochsprung and Sherlach were… And, I’m not saying this with 100% certainty, but the spatter pattern that is meant to be Adam’s, resembles that of shooting a person who is already dead.

          However, I’m not aware that his medical records have ever been released to the public. We’ve been told to trust the media on their word about the condition of Adam. So technically, no one has proven without a shadow of doubt that he was mentally ill.
          And, we’ve never seen any of those graphs or any hard evidence he had anything school shooting related on his computer. Just the word of of law enforcement that can’t keep any of the facts straight.

          And it really doesn’t take such a ginormous team to pull off such a thing. Just make damn sure your men are in position. Best example I can give is the first X Files movie. Scully gets stung by one of the bees. Mulder calls 911. As they’re loading her onto the ambulance Mulder is asking them where they are taking her. The driver shoots him and drives off. The real ambulance is seen in the distance.
          Halstead and his ragtag crew, Newtown PD, Troop A, the crew that was in sniper training that morning CFS 1200705354 Sec 16 p.2. distract some officers by telling them to set up at a church, send them to the senior center, have them set up a perimeter outside and help with the evacuation in the part of the school that doesn’t matter. Certain medical personnel at the hospital, then initiate a lock down. Hell, some of the police were reporting no radio signal at the school that day. hmm…. Maybe that was intentional.

          I’m not saying I know what happened, because I don’t. While it may seem easy to wrap this up to the notion that a mentally ill kid had guns and went on a rampage, and the discrepancies are just weird coincidences, it isn’t for me. I studied this stuff. My mind is wired differently. It is impossible for there to be so many discrepancies. It is impossible for the “Experts” to get so many things wrong, it is impossible that the final report reflects reality.

          “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth” Sherlock Holmes.

          • NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 11:00 pm said:

            Sorry for the really long response, but I like to be thorough.
            And thank you for being the first person to actually answer my questions. I want you to know that despite our different opinions and views, I have respect for you and what you do. I have come to your page several times looking for logic and balance. You have taught me a lot. And I really appreciate it.

          • Shill Murray on August 8, 2017 at 3:28 am said:

            You know I can’t possibly parse through all of this, right? Are there like, five things you’d like me to address or something? This shit will take me weeks. As often as people accuse me of being a shill, the sad truth is that I actually have another job that I must attend to (and I’ve already stayed up past my bedtime writing this). That means I just don’t have time to assess and then address every last perceived issue seen here. It’s just not in the cards. I will skip around a bit, though. But again, if there are let’s say 3-5 things you absolutely, positively need some sort of assurance on, let me know and I’ll make an honest attempt to discuss them when I have the time.

            I would really like to drop Halbig out of this conversation.

            I’m sure you would, but it’s an important point: if the “official story” (or, as I prefer to call it, the story) is suspect simply due to the people who report on it, then the same can be said for alternative Sandy Hook theories. You can’t have it both ways.

            Eye witnesses sometimes get things wrong, which is why I’m not even covering the fact that there were 2 different descriptions of the suspect (the mask and hat with glasses). Or the fact that the gunshots sounded like pots and pans or the janitor setting up the table. I’m not even bringing up the “transposing” of Ryan and Adam’s name. Or the several variations and places of Natalie’s wounds.
            Or the fact that we have 2 narratives as to how they got Roig and her class out of the closet from Narnia. Just a badge, or a badge and a key?

            But… you just said that you’re not covering them.

            Or how about the fact that they all seemed to be… new, and/or covering for someone. Rousseau was recently hired as a full time sub, D’Avino had only been there for a few weeks, there was someone out sick from the office, Thorne was covering for the other janitor, there was a sub in room 1, Murphy was set to retire soon, Hochsprung was hired in 2010, Soto.. sometime around then (I can’t remember exact year).

            How do you count someone who is out sick as “new” or “covering for someone”? Hochsprung, Roig, Pisani, Hammond, Sally Cox, and Mary Sherlach had all been at the school for at least a year, according to older school handbooks. I’m sure some of there had been there longer than that, but I have no proof. Again, what is the metric? What is “new”, and at what point does the length of their employment stop being suspect? Three years? Five? But then again, it’s also suspect if they’ve been there too long and are looking to retire, right? As for Rick Thorne, he had also been employed by the school as a janitor for years, although I believe only part time. But yes, I believe the story is that he had changed shifts with one of the other janitors, but he was not a new employee. I’m not sure what the implication here is; that the other janitor knew… ?

            However, I’m not aware that his medical records have ever been released to the public.

            Probably because that’s illegal. Clues to his mental health are sprinkled throughout the final report, which includes interviews with his family, Kathleen Koenig, Dr. Robert King, etc. He also shot up an elementary school, which is a pretty good indicator.

            And it really doesn’t take such a ginormous team to pull off such a thing. Just make damn sure your men are in position. Best example I can give is the first X Files movie.

            You do know that’s a movie, right? About aliens.

            It is impossible for there to be so many discrepancies. It is impossible for the “Experts” to get so many things wrong, it is impossible that the final report reflects reality.

            What is this based on? Your own personal opinion? How many discrepancies can there be? This being the 2nd worst school shooting in American history (and the worst Elementary school shooting in American history), what have you compared it to? Etc.

            “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth” Sherlock Holmes.

            Funny, I think Fetzer uses this exact quote in his garbage book. Here’s one that I’m very fond of: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”

      • Steve on August 8, 2017 at 4:47 pm said:

        Communities have new buildings built all the time, often using state and federal grant money. My hometown just had a new police station open within the last year. There was no mass shooting here.
        How are these things necessarily indicative of a cover-up in your mind?
        The projects in those towns in all likelihood were in the works years before the shooting.
        You also mentioned something about young children in the school growing up to the believe they survived a mass shooting when no mass shooting took place. So I take it you think it is possible that the shooting was actually a drill that was reported to the general public as an actual mass shooting with actual casualties.
        The problem with that is that mass casualty drills happen all the time Local media often reports on them, They’re never reported as anything other than a drill.
        Drills also don’t involve civilians who are not aware that they’re involved in the drill and think it’s a real incident. Everyone involved in the drill knows it’s a drill.
        State law also requires certain things in a drill, no driving to the scene with sirens and lights, no real weapons, no live ammo, a meeting of everyone involved before the drill, etc. They did not follow those procedures.

  8. NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 5:32 pm said:

    All you’re doing is picking at what I’m saying, and never answering my questions. Is it really that hard to tell me why you believe the official story? Cause it really shouldn’t be. Nitpicking and debunking others does not prove the official story happened.
    So, what are the reasons why you believe the official story? Convince me that the official story is true. What are your points, facts, evidence?
    A person could sit for hours, listing why they believe in God. An invisible, unproven entity. But no one can list even one thing, telling me why they believe the official story of Sandy Hook.

    • Steve on August 7, 2017 at 5:35 pm said:

      Sorry you missed it, but, the “official story” if that’s what you want to call it, makes a lot more sense than any other possible scenario.

  9. Steve on August 7, 2017 at 5:36 pm said:

    And it’s not up to me to prove it happened. If you’re making the claim that something else happened, it’s up to you to prove it.

  10. NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 6:18 pm said:

    But I’m not asking you to prove it. I am asking you to explain why you believe it. Why does it make more sense than any other possible scenarios? What would those scenarios be, and how do they not make sense?

    I’m not coming here with my own theories, or trying to convince you that the official story is bullshit. I’m not here for a debate. I am just simply trying to understand a perspective that is not my own. That apparently, seems to be harder to do than finding the purpose of life.

    Why do you believe the official story? Why should I believe the official story? Do you really even know why you believe? Why can’t anyone answer this incredibly simple question?

  11. NotToday333 on August 7, 2017 at 6:27 pm said:

    But seriously though, besides explaining why you believe, can you explain to me the warrant thing? I’m not joking. That seems to be one of those anomalies that really, really shouldn’t exist. What in logical hell could explain that? What am I missing?

    (p.s I never stated I believed it was a hoax. I only stated that I question the official story.)

  12. Steve on August 7, 2017 at 7:36 pm said:

    I think I have already explained why I accept the “official story” three times.

    • NotToday333 on August 8, 2017 at 12:29 am said:

      What I have gathered, is if you can debunk wild claims then it must be true. And me not having irrefutable proof of a cover up furthers this belief, forgetting the fact that the point of a cover up is to destroy evidence and cover up the truth. Not leave a happy trail for people to find. I bet that even if a whistle blower came out you’d call it a fake, right? Your response would be “They’d never let him come out, they’d kill him first.” or “he’s a fraud, he wouldn’t dare expose something like that”.
      This is a belief based on ignorance and years of conditioning.

      There are discrepancies that shouldn’t be there. They cannot be explained without first accepting the idea that someone is lying. Don’t think so?
      Then answer my question about the warrants. How do you explain that?
      And tell me why Vance would state that Adam was dead in the hallway.

      • Shill Murray on August 8, 2017 at 2:48 am said:

        A lot of strawman arguments here. Please be better than that if you want people to engage in a real, meaningful dialog with you. I will agree that yes, it’s incredibly difficult to give your claims any serious consideration when you, by your own admission, do not have any irrefutable proof of them; only inconsistencies and anomalies. Suggesting that your ideas should be immune from scrutiny because cover-ups do not result in tangible evidence is intellectually dishonest, and it’s simply not true. We learn about new high-level coverups every day. Remember: three people can keep a secret, but only if two of them are dead.

        This is a belief based on ignorance and years of conditioning.

        Look, you’ve generally conducted yourself very well on this site. I’d go as far as to say you’ve conducted yourself better than any other denier or conspiracy theorist, etc, that has come through to leave a comment. But the idea that everyone else is coming from a place of ignorance or conditioning is not kosher.

        There are discrepancies that shouldn’t be there. They cannot be explained without first accepting the idea that someone is lying. Don’t think so?

        Shouldn’t be there according to who? What is the metric here? Every major event in history has been plagued by misinformation, mistakes, discrepancies, anomalies, etc. Did no one truly die on the Titanic? Because that’s what the Daily Mail claimed a day after the accident. Was Thomas Dewey really our 34th President? Etc. Do you believe that there aren’t similar discrepancies in the police reports from Columbine or Virginia Tech (assuming you believe they happened)?

        Furthermore, no; lying is not the only possible explanation for discrepancies, whether they be real or perceived. That’s just crazy. People make mistakes, and these mistakes can be exacerbated by chaotic situations. Certainly if the human mind were a perfect, flawless instrument, and memories were more like photographs than anything, then sure, discrepancies would be much more suspect. But we both know that’s not the case. Let me ask you a question: why do you believe eyewitness testimony is so poorly regarded in the legal realm?

        Then answer my question about the warrants. How do you explain that?

        Which warrant? Please be specific as you’ve typed quite a alot (some of which I hope to get to at some point, but again, there’s just so much).

        And tell me why Vance would state that Adam was dead in the hallway.

        First of all, the audio seems very strange in the only clip of this that I could find, which has of course been uploaded by a conspiracy site. I’d love to see the original clip. But let’s assume that it’s legitimate. Occam’s Razor: he made a mistake. The interview was filmed on the 14th, hours after the shooting, so maybe he was misinformed. Being the police spokesperson, I don’t believe he toured the crime scene (though I could be wrong). Or maybe he knew and misspoke. If there was some sort of cover up, why didn’t he have his story straight? More importantly, as nothing is truly ever aired live (there’s always a tape delay), why did they allow such an enormous blunder – one capable of exposing their whole ruse – to ever make it to the airwaves? After all, you yourself said “the point of a cover up is to destroy evidence and cover up the truth. Not leave a happy trail for people to find”, yet you’re accusing them of just that!

        • NotToday333 on August 8, 2017 at 3:39 am said:

          Fair enough. I retract my ignorance comment. I apologize.

          I say they shouldn’t exist, because they shouldn’t. If nothing happened in room 12 then it should never have been brought up. They didn’t get the room numbers confused or anything, they clearly state the first 3 classroom.
          Here, I’ll copy and paste the warrant stuff for you.

          Each of the following warrants (listed as #5 on each) states “numerous school children and school personnel were located deceased from apparent gunshot wounds in the first three classrooms located off the main hallway adjacent to the school’s front entrance”……. “Investigators also located a teenaged white malde dressed in military style clothing, wearing a bullet proof vest lying deceased on the floor in the middle classroom”
          #1 and #2 describe the officers requesting the warrants.
          CFS 1200705354 Sec. 2 Pg. 4,16
          CFS 1200704597 00063167 p.4
          CFS 1200704559 Book 1 00263454 p.54
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194593 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194599 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 4 00194603 p.5
          CFS 1200704559 Book 6 00259526 p.3
          CFS 1200704559 Book 8 00259526 p.3

          Here is the link to the CT government website where you can download all those documents and read for yourself. http://cspsandyhookreport.ct.gov/

          And again, I am not looking for perfection. Mishaps happen, life is messy and sometimes eye witnesses are not hat reliable. And yes, I do believe they happen. Why is it that because I question one mass shooting that means I question them all? you’re trying to define me as a conspiracy theorist when I am simply someone that thinks there’s something wrong with this case. Is a cop a conspiracy theorist when the re-open cases?

          You’re assuming that I am investigating it backwards. That I already have chosen what took place and what didn’t. But that’s not how this works. I learned about the case, thought “huh, this doesn’t makes sense” and began looking into it. I go where the evidence takes me. Observing and asking questions doesn’t make me a conspiracy theorist. I just want to know what really happened that day.

          • NotToday333 on August 8, 2017 at 4:00 am said:

            I did leave a pretty lengthy comment earlier. I cited all the sources for my arguments like you requested, but it says it’s still waiting moderation. Just so you know.

          • Shill Murray on August 8, 2017 at 4:03 am said:

            I believe it was marked for moderation due to its length. I’ve since approved it. Sources are, of course, always appreciation.

          • Shill Murray on August 8, 2017 at 6:04 pm said:

            Fair enough. I retract my ignorance comment. I apologize.

            Appreciated. Sincerely.

            I say they shouldn’t exist, because they shouldn’t.

            According to who? Based on what? How are you prepared to back up your assertion that these anomalies cannot possibly exist? Do you have law enforcement experience? Legal experience? What is your background?

            To the best of my knowledge, we – the general public – have truly unprecedented insight into this particular case. Just a mountain of documentation that I don’t believe is available for any comparable crime (of which there aren’t many; maybe just Columbine and Virginia Tech). So I’m extremely curious as to where these stringent standards are coming from. Do you honestly believe that if they were to make all of the documentation from let’s just say the Columbine shooting available to everyone, that we wouldn’t see any mistakes or anomalies? Do you honestly believe that every responding officer and witness is going to tell the same exact story? And if you recognize that of course we’re bound to see some errors, how many are you willing to allow? Is there some sort of formula that I’m unaware of that allows you to determine how many anomalies can exist before something is officially suspicious?

            As for the warrants… first of all, you list the same document (00259526) as existing in both book 6 as well as book 8, but it only exists in book 8. I assume this is an honest mistake on your part and not an attempt to make it look like there are more offending search warrants than there truly are (unless you meant to cite a different document in book 6, which is entirely possible). Anyway, I think it’s quite obvious that, in the interest of time, the same verbiage (and therefore the same questionable information, which was of course prevelant in those early hours of the investigation) was essentially copied and pasted into each search warrant, with any new information simply tacked on as it became available. If you need any proof that this is the case, look no further than documents 00194599, 00194603, or 002595276: while these warrants still refer to a “teenaged white male” (and I shouldn’t have to explain why anyone initially believed Adam to be a teenager), they immediately go on to correctly identify him as “Adam Lanza, DOB 04/22/92”. You don’t need to be a math whiz to realize that this would have made him 20 years-old, and not a teenager.

            And search warrants do not have to be 100% accurate. I don’t know why you would believe that they would, all things considered. An officer simply needs to prove that probable cause exists, based on personal observation or hearsay. In this case, that information was not entirely accurate, and that’s fine. But it wasn’t entirely inaccurate either. For instance, one could strongly argue that Adam’s outfit that day – black cargo pants, black fingerless gloves, black bucket hat, black shirt, black shoes, a camouflage holster, etc. – was in fact “military style”. That was clearly Adam’s intention. His vest wasn’t bullet proof, but again, it’s easy enough to see how someone could make that mistake without further inspecting the body. And yes, there were no bodies found inside of Roig’s classroom, but Hochsprung and Sherlach were located in the hallway almost directly in front of it. So technically incorrect, but not so far from the truth as to render it preposterous. This stuff isn’t all that far off. If one of the responding officers had said that Adam was dressed as a clown and all of the victims were found in the library, then I’d say yeah, that’s definitely weird.

            Why is it that because I question one mass shooting that means I question them all?

            I don’t believe I claimed that you questioned them all, but I didn’t know – and I guess I still don’t know – where you stand. And it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for me to use them as reference points if you’re just going to say “don’t care, didn’t happen”. Not that I’m looking to go down that rabbit hole. But what would stop you from believing none of them happened the way we were told? If you don’t trust the media or the government to tell us the truth, then why would they tell us the truth about Columbine or Virginia Tech? I think that’s a fair question. If you don’t question those shootings, then it’s clear you believe man has the capacity for this level of violence. So what makes Sandy Hook so unbelievable to you? Why can Seung-Hui Cho kill 32 people at a college, but Adam Lazna can’t kill 26 at an elementary school?

            you’re trying to define me as a conspiracy theorist when I am simply someone that thinks there’s something wrong with this case.

            I’m sorry man, but you are a conspiracy theorist. You believe that the events of Sandy Hook were the result of a secret plan put together by powerful groups, and that is literally the dictionary definition of conspiracy theorist. You believe in aliens (or alien visitors), etc. I understand that “conspiracy theorist” is usually used as a pejorative these days, and it aligns you with some pretty shitty individuals, but I gotta call a spade a spade (going with the Erasmus translation here, and not the potentially racist one).

            You’re assuming that I am investigating it backwards. That I already have chosen what took place and what didn’t. But that’s not how this works.

            To me, the biggest problem with your approach is that when surveying the available evidence, you’re seizing upon these anomalies and weighting them dis-proportionally. What I mean is – and I’m totally blanking on which cognitive bias this may be classified as – you’re looking at let’s say ten people telling the same story and throwing it out in favor of one person telling a slightly different version. That’s just madness to me, and it’s an affront to the scientific method. It’s the same shit people do in order to claim global warming is a hoax (again, not a rabbit hole I’m looking to head down, so uh let’s ignore that). And it’s why we’re more likely than not going to disagree on this forever.

            I go where the evidence takes me.

            This isn’t real evidence though! Most of your major points rely on eyewitness testimony, often from outliers (as in people who stand out against the majority). Here’s a good introduction to some of the memory biases inherent in eyewitness testimony, which goes a long way in explaining why it’s considered to be so unreliable.

            Observing and asking questions doesn’t make me a conspiracy theorist.

            But ignoring the answers does. Look, I have to give credit where credit is due: you’ve done a lot of research into this case, and you’ve managed to find what is likely every mistake and anomaly in the final report, but it is of my opinion that you are using these totally normal, expected, and often explainable bits and pieces to draw an absurd conclusion. Earlier you stated that cover ups, by their very nature, rarely result in any irrefutable evidence. But you’re also citing the final report, which was released to the public by the state of Connecticut, as evidence…. of a cover up. You said that the perpetrators never leave a trail of crumbs, but you also want people to believe that they not only had no problem preparing a report chock full of these bread crumbs (and you would think they’d have their act together, especially by the time the report was finally released), but have made no attempts to correct or hide them. Do you see the problem here?

          • Shill Murray on August 8, 2017 at 6:26 pm said:

            Here’s another interesting read, this one regarding trauma’s impact on the brain and why traumatic experiences are often incomplete or fragmented. It’s written by an instructor on Psychology at Harvard as well as a forensic consultant, both of which are Ph. D.s. And while it’s written with a particular high-profile sexual assault case in mind, the core concepts remain extremely relevant:

            http://time.com/3625414/rape-trauma-brain-memory/

  13. Steve on August 8, 2017 at 2:08 am said:

    I think you’re questions are irrelevant and don’t point to a hoax.

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